From Zilla Brown

Tuesday, 2 November 2010

I tried for quite a while to get the planning reference too.

What is wrong with Calderdale plannings site. Recently I entered the correct application number for another proposal and that didnt work either?

For what its worth I objected too as the windmill is larger than the Angel of the North apparently and sited in the last unspoit bit between Hebden and the Royd.

From Zilla Brown

Wednesday, 3 November 2010

I see today that a windmill has gone up on the skyline above Old Town at Bog Eigs / "Alls well farm". My partner objected to this but he never received any notification of a planning appeal or meeting.

It is in a really prominent position.

From Andy M

Thursday, 4 November 2010

I've been looking across at the Bog Eggs one from Heptonstall Park since its erection and initially reacted to it as: 'Blimey! A big new thing has appeared in the view' but then increasingly 'how well it fits with it neighbouring artefacts that have harnessed natural power in the past - eg the the water leat running down the hill to Old Town mill. It gives a visual sense of continuity... in my opinion.

I imagine Burless is a good site for a turbine - plenty of wind.

From Tom Standfield

Thursday, 4 November 2010

What are we actually doing in the Calder Valley to help prevent continuing global warming? Very little. Yet we have vast untapped resources of wind and water. We should give a little cheer each time a wind turbine is put up in spite of the efforts of the ever vocal nimbys.

Many opinion polls show that the majority of people are actually in favour of wind power. According to Friends of the Earth, A recent survey for the Countryside Council for Wales showed that between 74 and 83 per cent of people living near three Welsh wind farms found them acceptable developments, and 70 per cent said they would be happy to have more in the area. The Scottish Executive conducted a survey of residents near four wind farms, and 74 per cent said there was nothing they disliked about the farms while 67 per cent liked something about the farms.

I think the turbines fit in well, even enhance, the upper valley's beautiful post-industrial landscape.

From David R

Thursday, 4 November 2010

First and foremost I must say that am very much pro renewable energy. However, I do believe that this proposed turbine is disproportionate.

The precedent set by such cases could lead to 18m turbines built at every property with a spare acre of greenbelt land. We could soon see a dozen or so "taller than the Angel of the North" turbines within a half mile radius of this development.

How about an approach promoting a much smaller turbine for every property in a suitable location? Perhaps this wouldn't earn Calderdale the same level of subsidies. When asked why they were in favour of this particular development, one councillor simply copied and pasted the "pro" list from the flyer produced by the turbine manufacturer, nice to see some independent thinking!

Personally I am not particularly interested in the statistics and survey results banded about on this topic. I work in a job that focuses on manipulating data forecasts to direct Government spending on public infrastructure, so I am particularly sceptical on this front with so many agendas in play (including my own of course!).

Finally, the NIMBY argument is weak on both sides. No one likes a NIMBY, but we would all act in pretty much the same way if we were in the same position, perhaps not regarding a wind turbine, but maybe sports facilities, licensed premises, residential development etc. The concept of greenbelts/national parks/world heritage sites/you name it...are all the result of NIMBY behaviour.

From Liz D

Thursday, 4 November 2010

Just to correct some information in Zilla's message- the new wind turbine in Old Town is not in Allswell/Bog Eggs Farm but in land adjacent to Old Town Reservoir belonging to Parrock Farm, Mr Butterworth's I believe. I discovered this by searching Calderdale planning applications. If you search for 'wind turbines' there are 131 applications - you can see some have been approved and others refused; but the reasons are not always obvious.

From H Gregg

Friday, 5 November 2010

Try googling "Windmill on a Hill with Cattle Drovers" by John Constable - take a look - its obviously a blot on the landscape and should never have been allowed!

From Anne H

Friday, 5 November 2010

I agree with Andy's take on the turbine above Old Town. It is situated in the same field as the reservoir that was built to feed the hydroelectric system at Old Town Mill in the mid 19th century. Both are man made, both are innovative methods of their time. They serve the same basic function and both are beautiful in their own way. The hydroelectric system was innovative and pioneering at the time and I'm guessing that nobody suggested the idea was abandoned because the reservoir would spoil the view, close footpaths or look out of keeping with the surrounding moorland (which it must have done).

The field where it is situated has been used for the occasional grazing of sheep and horses over the last few years and I'm sure it will continue to be used in this way, so no loss of moorland or agricultural land.
Some of the electricity generated from the wind turbine will be returned to the grid for use by all of us - unlike the 19th century scheme when most of the Old Town residents would not have had electricity in their homes.

From Jim M

Friday, 5 November 2010

I am beginning to be ashamed of my generation (nearly retired).

A recent poll commissioned by IPB Communications showed that more than 75 per cent of people polled said they would be in favour of plans to build a wind farm producing green energy close to where they live, with 86 per cent of 16 to 34-year-olds surveyed saying they would back the proposals. Tellingly nobody under the age of 24 said they would oppose a wind farm in their area. Fewer over-55s, 61 per cent, were in favour of building a wind farm near their home. Twice as many retired people opposed wind farms than those who are working. Spoilt views and increases in noise were their main concerns.

It seems a good number of those who have lived most of their life through relative good times seem intent on imposing on younger generations every which way. Opposing wind generation, on grounds of view and noise for goodness sake, comes on top of a determination to keep their state freebies, bus travel, subsidised power, preferential health care etc etc, whilst dumping long term financial burdens on the kids as well.

Grey power needs better direction - but thats another topic.

From Zilla Brown

Sunday, 7 November 2010

As regards the reservoir in Old Town, it was built from the local stone (ie natural materials) and so blended in,and it also used a natural way of collecting and supplying water as seen in ponds, lakes and streams in nature.

Constable's wind mills were "wind" mills,and again were built of another natural material' namely wood , that also blended in even more with its surroundings as it matured.Both these were well within the scale of the local habitat.

Contrast that with what we see today on the headland at Parroch - a gleaming, completely man-made structure of white metal, ie. a wind turbine-that is way out of scale with the surrounding landscape, dwarfs all features and structures, and that will never age gracefully .

It is in such a postion as to be the most prominent feature bar none of all the several hillsides at that level.It has broken into the wild belt above cultivation because of its height. That is - from the top of Haworth Old Road on the moor above Pecket - all the way down the several hilltops - on to the horizon at Kings Cross.

I have walked on the moor of Erringden opposite today and was struck by the sight. How did it ever get planning permission? I haven't spoken to anyone locally who saw or commented on the original planning application in 2009. It would be good to know if anyone remembers it.

From Sutti H

Monday, 8 November 2010

I can't disagree with the idea of alternative energy. I actually like these wind turbines when they are the right size and in the right location. It wouldn't bother me if they were next to my house, but there must be more thought put into whether they are the right generator in the right place.

We are missing out in a massive way by not using the fast flowing rivers.
It stands out to me when you can go and relax in a local cafe and watch a water wheel go round and round. It has been restored in a quality manner, but it does nowt, sweet fanny adams. Just what Hebden Bridge stands for, a glossy image, a trendy place but false.

What about an affordable solarpanel for evey home, a water generator at every wharf in the calder valley. No we get a massive wind turbine, with planning permission hidden from many.

From Sutti H

Tuesday, 9 November 2010

I must point out it wasn't just the size of this Turbine. It's the fact that some planning applications are well advertised others are not. One turbine is turned down because of the view etc others aren't. Same with building some passed others aren't.

There seems to be something wrong with Calderdale planning, anyone else noticed? Plenty of people say the same.

From Chris Barnett

Thursday, 11 November 2010

I'm surprised that people seem to have problems spotting planning applications for wind turbines on Calderdale's website: as a regular follower of such things, I've never had a problem tracking applications for wind turbines or anything else.

I live very close to the new turbine at Old Town reservoir, and my daily dog walk (going back nearly 20 years) takes me within 20m of it: and I like it.

It always puzzles me when people talk about things like wind turbines desecrating our unspoilt, natural landscape. Our local landscape is not natural, and hasn't been for a long time.

Imagine if planning applications for Stoodley Pike, Gibson Mill or the Rochdale Canal were made today.... "large structure dominating views for miles around"...."industrial unit in local beauty spot"...."new freight link to be built along valley bottom".

These structures are now part of our landscape and heritage, and rightly so: we should accept wind turbines as a continuation of this process. The power and beauty of the hills, the valleys and the weather remains, and will never be dwarfed by a few windmills.

Wind power alone is not the answer to our problems, but until other sustainable power sources are up and running and economically viable, it's the best we've got.

From Zilla Brown

Thursday, 11 November 2010

The new wind turbine is most prominent verticle man made feature, on that contourline of the north facing valleys,from up Howarth Old road through to Kings Cross.

Howeverwhat is concerning is not just the visual aspect. The wind turbine makes an unfortunate combination with the lights that are still on all night at Bog Eigs.Together they present dual problems for the wildlife in this previously unspoilt area. The lights at Bog eigs disturb the birds and animals at night and now the turbine is an additional hazard

From Chris Barnett

Friday, 12 November 2010

I don't want to get into a point scoring exchange over this, but I think that Old Town Mill and its chimney is a far more prominent human intervention on this particular hillside: but it has become part of our landscape, and I think there would be an outcry (quite rightly) if it were to be demolished.

The issue of effects on wildlife is a valid one, but I don't think there are any grounds for concern in this instance: I haven't noticed any problems due to the Bog Eggs lights, and don't think the wind turbine will cause any problems either.

From Sutti H

Wednesday, 17 November 2010

I'm not sure if you noticed Chris but Gibson Mill, Stoodley Pike and the canal were built out of local stone. White painted metal, plastic etc is just a bit different. Like I said before the right size or the right place need to be found for these stuctures.

I do like them but this one is far too big for it's location

From Andy M

Friday, 19 November 2010

I'm not being facetious but you couldn't make the turbines out of local stone - they're modern artifacts and, to my mind, possess an elegance befitting their aeolian function.

From Karen Clithero

Wednesday, 24 November 2010

We have a better view of the Old Town turbine than anyone! I can see it from my kitchen window, whirling around while I make breakfast, I can see it when I go outside, I can see it when I'm working. I love it. I love the fact that the wind is working and producing. I love the fact that when someone presses their light switch the power from the wind makes their light work!

Technology is amazing! The turbine is pure white, beautiful and graceful, the movement is smooth and calming. I also enjoy the smaller turbines but the smaller blades whizz around so I prefer turbines the bigger the better!

We have seen many very large wind farms going up in the windy Tarifa area of Southern Spain, there is also a huge Solar electric farm there too.

I wouldnt mind people opposing the generation of electricity through wind or solar collection if they stopped using any power produced from technology that they personally oppose. Nuclear Power plants that produce much of our electricity are certainly not made from 'natural materials' like stone and wood, however I am presuming that the writer who opposes the turbine because it is not made from stone or wood has no problem using energy generated by these 'unnatural' means! Please do not be hypocritical, if you ceased use of all modern technology in your life, then I would definitely take you seriously. You cannot 'have your cake and eat it'. You are enjoying the produce of modern technology, yet moaning and whingeing about changes to 'your' scenery. Live in a tent, burn natural wood and candles, do not use computers, modern transport, televisions or any other modern convenience and then you will be an honest voice that deserves to be heard because you will be living as you believe and speak.

The simple truth is that people do not like change, the only things that do not change are either inert or dead. We have to accept that change is a part of life, psychiatrists agree that one of the ways to live a healthy life is the ability to accept change. If something is wrong, dishonest, or causing harm then it obviously needs to be addressed. We have to live in an honest, open, caring and loving environment to thrive as human beings, as I write this the turbine at Old Town is quietly whirling round so someone can put their kettle on for a morning cuppa. What powers your kettle?

From Kate C

Friday, 26 November 2010

I struggle to see what the above post brings to this debate. No one posting has opposed the generation of wind energy. They have simply questioned the trade off of the intrusion into the landscape at this particular site. However these "hypocritical", "moaning", "whinging" voices (possibly in need of psychiatric help, if we read between the lines of that last paragraph) are not green enough to deserve to be listened to.

I live in Old Town (not in a tent) and seeing the new turbine appear was startling, I admit, but something I expect to get used to. What really annoys me more is the sanctimonious attitude above. Lets be clear; this particular turbine can earn between £6000 - £9000 in a "moderately" windy site, and what this is really about is generating money.

Now maybe the owners are living up to Karen's helpful moral guidelines, and donating that money to pay the winter fuel bills of Old Town's pensioners, I don't know. I do know that the sort of holier than thou lecturing posted above does not move the debate forward. And I think we do need a debate on the scale of turbine development in the valley. It needs to encompass safety; consultation of residents (especially when a turbine can be seen much further away than the small area the yellow notices appear in), and questions like is a turbine really domestic when it's generating more revenue that some people's jobs. These are genuine concerns and I don't think you have to live in a tent to be allowed an opinion on them.

From Karen Clithero

Monday, 29 November 2010

I fail to understand why generating an income from wind turbines is a problem? Please Kate explain why you have a problem with anyone generating electricity to sell back to the grid for other people to use. Where do you buy your electricity from? Why don't the poeple of Old Town club together to install a turbine/s that will generate enough electricity for the villages needs? I personally would have no problem having several large turbines in my fields producing electricity for the village, they take up little space, the horses get used to them and so do the ground nesting birds because they keep the crows away (so far!).

From Kathy C

Thursday, 2 December 2010

I don't object to windmills but I do object when no thought is given to their placement. The hills and moors around West Yorkshire are becoming the target for these and where else in the hills around the Lakes, Downs, Dales are they being established in such large numbers? A one off in Old Town perhaps or perhaps not as the "Angel of the North" will shortly arrive to change another "view".

I am rather confused about the invitations to meetings in Hebden about Conservation Area status - what is being conserved if we are shortly to be surrounded akin to something out of the War of the Worlds also - the area has recently won an award citing "no unsympathetic buildings or structures"! Perhaps a lot of air being spouted here - who knows I may have just generated enough energy to make a brew!

From Kate C

Friday, 3 December 2010

I don't object in principle to turbines generating money for the owner. I mention their earning potential for two clear reasons. Firstly I object to the motivations of the owner being portrayed as purely altruistic. Secondly I think it important for the planning and consultation process if the terminology used is clear. If planning permission describes a domestic turbine we should not expect to see a huge industrial turbine being installed.